RP- A question of science and ethics

SeyCon - A Polite Inquiry

From: Lunarisse Aspenstar
To: N'maro Makari, Jennifer Starfall, Morwen Lagann, Nicoletta Mithra





Dear Sir/Madams:

In light of some of the potential submissions I saw on the IGS, I ask out of curiosity (and I do so here and NOT the IGS, because it is not my intention to cause drama), any standard or code of scientic ethics or best practices that serves a baseline to seperate the quacks and mad scientists from those who conduct science responsibly?

For example, Doctor (and I use this term loosely) Frenjo Borkstar's most recent experiments involving slicing the buttocks off unwilling participents from each of the races. But for the intervention of Templar Vadam. there would have been more victims. I understand has has applied to make a presentation at your conference.

Similarly, Nauplius attempt to conduct scientific experiments (along with a Dr. Wendrika Hydreiga who has a limited grasp of both the scientific method and ethics) to "de-minimatarize" unwilling subjects.

Whether, I recommend this conference to the Society will depend largely on the nature of the response I receive to this inquiry and the panelists admitted.

Cordially, and with God's Blessings,

Lunarisse Aspenstar Daphiti

Re: SeyCon - A Polite Inquiry

From: Morwen Lagann
To: Nicoletta Mithra, Lunarisse Aspenstar, N'maro Makari, Jennifer Starfall



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I have yet to see any application from Borkstar (though he did post intent to submit something on the Arek'Jaalan mailing list), and would be rather disappointed if substandard (or non-existant) adherance to the scientific process and methods, or the lack of humane practices were ignored when it comes to whether we approve a presentation or not.

That said, I don't think that we can, in good faith, 'tailor' the list of presentations to make the conference more palatable to one group or another. Each application will, I expect, be examined on its own merits (or the lack thereof), as will the applicant.

-ml

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Channel ID: -39608308
Channel Name: AVCL Connection
Listener: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Session started: 2015.02.13 03:13:08
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[ 2015.02.13 03:13:08 ] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to AVCL Connection! AVCL Connection is an IC channel for members of the Empire-State alliance. Individuals and organizations hostile to the Empire or State are barred from this channel.Player Employees:Thgil Goldcore - OwnerSamira Kernher - ManagerThe Connection is a small social club adjacent to the PIE headquarters in Amarr. The club is built out of bronze metal that reflects the soft blue ceiling lights, and the architecture is rounded, with a high domed ceiling. Finely-polished golden panels, engraved with religious illustrations, line the surface of the ceiling, and ornate gold text engravings of Amarrian scripture run down the walls to the floor to tell the tales of the scenes above.In the far corner of the bar is a large holo-emitter showing the latest Mind Clash Game. Several smaller emitters are dotted around the bar, each showing various items of note such as stock prices, religious sermons, and basic news. Beside the main emitter is a Mind Clash table, for those interested in playing amateur matches with their fellow patrons. Seating is ample in many forms. Floor mats, chairs, booths, and stools all complement tables designed for each. Juvenile samples of carefully selected plant life from both State and Imperial worlds grow together in large pots. VIP lounges are available on the second floor, accessible by a glass elevator at the rear corner of the bar opposite the Mind Clash area. Food at the Connection is comprised of a large variety of traditional upscale Amarrian and Caldari food. A large selection of teas are available along with the food, with the infamously toxic hak'len and other Kresh drinks a notable exception. The kitchen is quite visible and is staffed by chefs from both empires. All food and drink, of course, is provided free to any active member of the State or Empire militia.Connection restricts customers from carrying firearms, in accordance with local Imperial law. Those found carrying firearms in violation of this restriction will be asked to turn their weapon over or be escorted from the area.
[ 2015.02.13 03:36:10 ] Brent Anderson > *shows up with a few paintings it seems under his arm and sits down in a booth with snack order and waits.*
[ 2015.02.13 03:36:42 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote enters. She is carrying a datapad and is wearing a Red Plaid Peacoat.
[ 2015.02.13 03:37:18 ] Brent Anderson > *Waves at luna* "Heya Luna....I have something for you."
[ 2015.02.13 03:37:43 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote glances at Brent and asks lightly "You do?"
[ 2015.02.13 03:38:03 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote smiles.
[ 2015.02.13 03:38:56 ] Brent Anderson > *Pulls out a painting showing Luna's favored starship in battle with her ghostly facial profile in the stars behind it.*
[ 2015.02.13 03:39:41 ] Brent Anderson > "you like?"
[ 2015.02.13 03:40:12 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote smiles. "Lovely. You are talented as always Lord Anderson.'
[ 2015.02.13 03:40:22 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote walks in. She has a pensive look and her eyes look tired. She looks around appears to be slightly self-concious.
[ 2015.02.13 03:40:25 ] Brent Anderson > "I try."
[ 2015.02.13 03:41:33 ] Brent Anderson > "Ah hello Miss Starfall."
[ 2015.02.13 03:41:42 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote says 'I do expect the picture will look great at the statioN!" She pauses as she sees Jennifer. "My pardon, Sir. I am scheduled to meet with a contact." She curtsies.
[ 2015.02.13 03:41:55 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote looks around and upon seeing Lunarisse, walks over.
[ 2015.02.13 03:42:18 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote nods politely to Brent, "Mr. Anderson."
[ 2015.02.13 03:43:17 ] Brent Anderson > "Ah private meeting.. I'll take my leave then don't want to interupt."
[ 2015.02.13 03:43:41 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote glances 'where would you like to have a seat, Ms. Starfall.'
[ 2015.02.13 03:44:26 ] Jennifer Starfall > Oh, anywhere, You know the place better than I.
[ 2015.02.13 03:44:54 ] Jennifer Starfall > Maybe somewhere my lack of rank would not cause a stir?
[ 2015.02.13 03:45:22 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > I understand many Caldari like to sit at the mats? Would you like to sit there and have some tea?
[ 2015.02.13 03:45:43 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote turns back towads Brent, "My apologies, Lord Anderson. I've have alot on my mind."
[ 2015.02.13 03:46:01 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote smiles at Brent "Thank you. have a Blessed Night."
[ 2015.02.13 03:46:04 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote turns back, "Oh... yes, that would be lovely."
[ 2015.02.13 03:46:28 ] Brent Anderson > "No worries....I'll be at the station bar if you need me Luna." *Leaves*
[ 2015.02.13 03:46:33 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote makes her way over to a mat and sits cross-legged by a low table. She orders some tea electronically.
[ 2015.02.13 03:47:34 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote sits down at the low table and appears to relax somewhat.
[ 2015.02.13 03:48:15 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote takes the teapot from the server and pours two cups of tea.
[ 2015.02.13 03:49:25 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote sighs, "Sorry about the different venue. I had a... disturbing experience at the Grape that's still a bit fresh."
[ 2015.02.13 03:49:43 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote twitches slightly, remembering the last time she was in the grape.
[ 2015.02.13 03:50:25 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote hisses with a displeased expression "That Jack-in-the Box wasn't back was it?"
[ 2015.02.13 03:51:34 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote looks surprised, "I'm not sure. There was a patron who apparently was keeping the head of creche director in a life support module and called him "father."
[ 2015.02.13 03:51:52 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "An abomination. It's unnatural." She shudders.
[ 2015.02.13 03:52:57 ] Jennifer Starfall > It was a tad disturbing... yes.
[ 2015.02.13 03:53:26 ] Jennifer Starfall > Is that what set you in such a poor mood the other night?
[ 2015.02.13 03:53:32 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "If I see that thing again, I am reporting it to the Theology Council." She shudders.
[ 2015.02.13 03:53:46 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote murmers "Perhaps. I've been a bit up and down I admit."
[ 2015.02.13 03:55:10 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote creases her forehead in concern. "You okay, Lunarisse?"
[ 2015.02.13 03:55:24 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > That time of year, I admit.
[ 2015.02.13 03:55:38 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote frowns slightly. She shrugs and sips her tea.
[ 2015.02.13 03:55:39 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote frowns in thought.
[ 2015.02.13 03:56:10 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "What did you want to discuss jennifer?"
[ 2015.02.13 03:57:15 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote studies Lunarisse a few moments longer before giving a slight nod of assent.
[ 2015.02.13 03:58:03 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote ships her tea. "I wanted to discuss your message."
[ 2015.02.13 03:58:42 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote nods. "Thank you. I confess, I was not terrible assuaged by Steward Lagann's response"
[ 2015.02.13 04:00:03 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote nods. "I can understand that."
[ 2015.02.13 04:00:49 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > I know if Brother Novan was back from planetside, he'd be interested. I am not sure my opinion matters, however, as he and Lord Raholan have both been preoccupied."
[ 2015.02.13 04:00:56 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "They are our scientists"
[ 2015.02.13 04:02:18 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote nods.
[ 2015.02.13 04:03:17 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > What is your view of the question posed?
[ 2015.02.13 04:03:58 ] Samira Kernher > /emote enters Connection. She's wearing what looks like a randomly-thrown on ensemble of clothing: A loose blouse and jeans under a brown Amarrian robe. She also has her blue headscarf, though it's just set on her neck and shoulders like a shawl.
[ 2015.02.13 04:04:00 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote sets her tea down. "First, I want to emphasize the non-political, non-factional nature of the conference."
[ 2015.02.13 04:04:30 ] Jennifer Starfall > All races, factions and sovreignties, or lack thereof, are welcome to present and paticipate.
[ 2015.02.13 04:05:14 ] Jennifer Starfall > We will not exclude anyone on those criteria.
[ 2015.02.13 04:05:32 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote says this last with a distinct conviction.
[ 2015.02.13 04:05:35 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote sips her tea, allowing jennifer to talk without interrupting.
[ 2015.02.13 04:05:41 ] Samira Kernher > /emote stops at the door when she notices Jenn and Luna, perhaps expecting the place to be empty. She rubs her eyes, and she looks perhaps more tired than usual.
[ 2015.02.13 04:06:28 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote glances at Samira and gives a friendly smile. She turns her attention back to Jennifer.
[ 2015.02.13 04:06:43 ] Jennifer Starfall > Now, that being said, as Ms. Lagann said, we also recongize the importance of good scientific methodologies and ethics.
[ 2015.02.13 04:07:52 ] Samira Kernher > /emote strolls up to a table a good distance away from the other two. She picks up an electronic menu and sits down, ordering a salad.
[ 2015.02.13 04:07:59 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote looks Lunarisse in the eye with a depth to her expression, "And you know my personal experiences with ethics in research."
[ 2015.02.13 04:08:23 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote nods slightly "That is so."
[ 2015.02.13 04:09:26 ] Jennifer Starfall > Now, if what you say is true regarding Dr. Borkstar, then there would be issues with the ethics of his research.
[ 2015.02.13 04:11:04 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > He is notorious about his disregard of ethics and his view that ethics are immaterial to science.
[ 2015.02.13 04:11:16 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote says that with a bleak tone of voice.
[ 2015.02.13 04:11:53 ] Jennifer Starfall > Unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with his research as much as I am with others' that ou are no doubt concerned about.
[ 2015.02.13 04:12:13 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > Would you agree that there are certain universal truths that should be considered in establishing ethical priniciples?
[ 2015.02.13 04:12:21 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > It's not simply whether one goes 'ick'
[ 2015.02.13 04:12:24 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote chuckles lightly.
[ 2015.02.13 04:12:55 ] Jennifer Starfall > As long as this doesn't become a theological discussion, yes.
[ 2015.02.13 04:13:02 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > Although sometimes that can show one's instincts before being clouded by overrationalization.
[ 2015.02.13 04:13:33 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > Whether the source is God or otherwise, there are certain universal truths. We may disagree as to the source and I don't need to debate the source with you.
[ 2015.02.13 04:13:55 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > My concern is whether SeyCon will allow itself to be tainted by those who disregard them.
[ 2015.02.13 04:14:10 ] Jennifer Starfall > Such as experimentation on humans?
[ 2015.02.13 04:14:19 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote nods slightly "Without their consent."
[ 2015.02.13 04:15:49 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote gives Lunarisse a pained, almost wounded look.
[ 2015.02.13 04:16:26 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote sighs and simply nods in acknowledgment.
[ 2015.02.13 04:16:43 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "I know you understand. I am not terribly sure the other organizers do"
[ 2015.02.13 04:17:02 ] Samira Kernher > /emote glances at the two as she pokes at her salad with a fork, then returns to looking at the bowl.
[ 2015.02.13 04:17:10 ] Jennifer Starfall > Well, there's another side to this.
[ 2015.02.13 04:17:20 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote sips her tea.
[ 2015.02.13 04:17:53 ] Jennifer Starfall > You did, in a low key way, hold your scientists hostage.
[ 2015.02.13 04:18:30 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote raises an eyebrow. "What do you mean?"
[ 2015.02.13 04:19:18 ] Jennifer Starfall > One could interpret your message as saying "exclude those people we don't like, or our scientists aren't going to participate."
[ 2015.02.13 04:19:38 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote raises her hand to forestall a protest.
[ 2015.02.13 04:19:49 ] Jennifer Starfall > I'm not saying that was your intent.
[ 2015.02.13 04:20:26 ] Jennifer Starfall > But, it could be read that way.
[ 2015.02.13 04:20:34 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote stiffens. "Sadly in this beknighted cluster, I have learned that good intentions can get crowded out by the amoral. They have reputations to protect, Brother Novan and Lord Raholan"
[ 2015.02.13 04:21:00 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "And rest assured, those of the amoril ilk would use the presence of the reputable as a cloak for their own vileness."
[ 2015.02.13 04:22:00 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > It was not my intent to dictate who attends,.
[ 2015.02.13 04:22:12 ] Jennifer Starfall > I know that.
[ 2015.02.13 04:23:19 ] Jennifer Starfall > But, here's where it gets sticky.
[ 2015.02.13 04:24:53 ] Jennifer Starfall > Let's take your word on the morals of Dr. Borkstar at face value. Now, what if he chooses to submit a presentation on the migration patterns of Circadian Seekers. Based on data that was collected by ethical means.
[ 2015.02.13 04:25:13 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote sips her tea.
[ 2015.02.13 04:25:49 ] Jennifer Starfall > Do we exclude him? Or do we accept his application?
[ 2015.02.13 04:26:18 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote says bluntly "exclude him. Because you give him status and prestige that will ratify his other actions."
[ 2015.02.13 04:28:48 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote sits back, "I've been about as wanted as one can. I've been an Angel and a Gurista. There was a time a time when I would've readily hunted you."
[ 2015.02.13 04:29:16 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote raises her arms to encompass the room, "But yet, here, now, I'm welcome."
[ 2015.02.13 04:29:47 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote nods slightly. "And in that regard, you are different from Mr. Borkstar."
[ 2015.02.13 04:29:52 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "Are you the same person you were then?"
[ 2015.02.13 04:30:03 ] Jennifer Starfall > No, true.
[ 2015.02.13 04:30:13 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "Do you reflect upon who you are now?"
[ 2015.02.13 04:30:54 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote sighs, "Too often of late."
[ 2015.02.13 04:31:09 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote smiles, "The analogy was a weak one."
[ 2015.02.13 04:31:17 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > He does not show the marks of self reflection or awareness.
[ 2015.02.13 04:33:06 ] Jennifer Starfall > True.
[ 2015.02.13 04:33:55 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote sighs. "I do appreciate your talking to me Jennifer."
[ 2015.02.13 04:34:08 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > "I think it's time for me to retire for the night."
[ 2015.02.13 04:34:26 ] Jennifer Starfall > Are you sure you're okay?
[ 2015.02.13 04:34:48 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote shrugs and says flatly. "I'll be fine." as she gets up from the mat.
[ 2015.02.13 04:35:11 ] Jennifer Starfall > Lunarisse, sometimes the healers need healing themselves.
[ 2015.02.13 04:35:47 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote glances at Jennifer. "Perhaps." she smiles "have a Blessed night."
[ 2015.02.13 04:36:02 ] Samira Kernher > /emote glances at Luna as she stands.
[ 2015.02.13 04:36:03 ] Jennifer Starfall > You too, suuolo.
[ 2015.02.13 04:36:23 ] Lunarisse Aspenstar > /emote gives Samira a polite smile as she leaves.
[ 2015.02.13 04:37:19 ] Jennifer Starfall > /emote wateches Lunarisse leave. Seeing Samira, she gestures an invitation to join her.